stadia.gr/forum

[Christos 7]

Guys, I have been reading alot of articles lately, and 98% of them have been negative. They say tourists aren't going to be coming, the Olympics will have no real impact. They say, ticket prices are high, package deals from other countries are expensive, their is no room in Athens for people to stay. Alot are worried about security also.


What do you all think about this? How are ticket sales etc going? Are we going to have new stadiums and arenas with no people in them? Or will it be just Greeks, with a few others sprinkled in?


At times, I am very optomistic, and think we will host a great Olympics. At other times, I say we are foolish, we had no business hosting them, and we will screw it up royaly. What are your thoughts?


PS Does anybody have an idea, or any stats on how much total the Olympics wil cost? How much is expected to be made? Can Athens do this, without it leaving a big hurting?

[exitmusician]

AFAIK, tickets are almost sold-out. I purchased mine in October and I could barely manage to find some for the events I wanted. Don't think anything extreme, I didn't go for the opening ceremony but I managed to find the tickets I wanted only in the last minute. E.g. the tickets for athletics finals were sold-out except for very few "expensive" seats, basketball was also sold out, gymnastics, swimming and numerous more. I wouldn't worry about having empty stadia. You might see some in morning events and in sports like e.g. softball preliminaries, but doesn't this happen in every Olympics?

Tickets aren't too expensive, even by Greek standards. Of course you can't expect to watch athletics finals with 10 Euros but you could buy tickets with 40 Euros. Personally, I spent about 150 Euros for tickets in three events and I will spend more, but that probably has to do with my personal appraisal of the value of partaking in such an event as a spectator. About package deals from other countries I don't know, but that shouldn't be a problem for the success of the Olympics. I am much more worried about the Paralympics, though.

[Ziaka]

Even though as exitmusician notes tickets might be sold out for the most popular events, don't forget that a lot of tickets have been reserved by the various National Olympic Committees. For example the US Olympic Committee has made arrangements to have 2004 tickets sold through Cartan Tours, and they still have tickets available, although Opening and Closing Ceremonies are sold out.

For those in the US, here is the Canrtan Tours web site:

http://www.cartan.com/ticketcover.htm

[Christos 7]

Even with all the negative talk, and negative media (most notably from Australia ) I think people will end up going. As I remember somebody saying, Athens can't be the only Olympic Games people don't attend...

[CheeseburgerParadise]

Let me start by quickly saying that this is a great site. Invaluable to all soccer and basketball fans in Greece or going to Greece, as well as to visitors to the 2004 Olympics.

Regarding Olympic ticket sales:
I can only compare the situation to the Sydney Olympics where many events were sold out as soon as tickets were offered up for sale. This included tickets to sports not that popular in Australia and to events in which Australians were not expected to achieve any meaningful results. In the case of Athens 2004, unless it's basketball, rhythmic gymnastics or certain athletic events, nobody is showing much interest. Very few sessions were sold out even before Feb. 13, when the organising committee offered up another batch of tickets up for sale to the European public. It's now almost a week since those extra tickets were put on sale and you can STILL buy tickets to the basketball finals and semis, which are supposed to be the most sought after tickets of the games (apart from the swimming), right?
This state of affairs shows that the Greek people and Europe as a whole are not showing much interest or confidence in the 2004 Olympics, which is a shame. Ticket sales will no doubt pick up the closer you get to the opening ceremony but will that be a significant increase? Hard to tell.
For those attending, or simply interested in what events are attracting attention, you can follow ticket sales on the official Athens 2004 website.

Without meaning to issue a blanket condemnation on everyone involved in putting on the Games, I think it's a pity that many of the organisations involved in getting Athens ready for the game did such a lousy job. They are now nervously struggling to have all the stadiums and transportation infrastructure, etc. ready by Game time, and with convincing everyone that things will be OK instead of spending their time marketing the Games and instilling an air of confidence, optimism and party atmosphere among the general public. Less than 6 months before the Games begin and there's more fear and trepidation than joy and anticipation!

With regard to ticket prices:
Expensive. But then all tickets to such events are expensive so there's no real reason to complain. It's all a question of stadium capacity and expected demand. Thus, for the athletics finals you can pay 40 euros for the so-called 'nose-bleed' seats while for the mens baskeball final the cheapest seats will cost 150 euros!

My fears? The atmosphere of the Games and organisational, and especially, transportation hardships.
People will come see the Games. Maybe not as many as the organisers would like, but once it begins people tend to catch Game fever and go to at least one event just to be part of the atmosphere.
The stadia will be ready. They may not be at full working capacity behind the scenes and the surrounding landscaping may be unfinished or shoddy but there's really no choice BUT to have the statiums ready! Otherwise there's no Olympics.
The atmosphere? In Sydney it was something really special. The whole country was participating in one huge party. I'm hoping it will be the same in Athens but who can tell? Also, Athens has the potential for violence that Sydney did not have, not just in terms of terrorism (which I do not really give much thought to anyway) but in terms of hooliganism, which is almost unknown in Australian sports. I don't mean to offend anyone. I only said that there's a 'potential' for violence, and I certainly do not forsee a gang of synchronised swimming fans going on the rampage if the Greek girls do get the gold, but I have been to a few Greek basketball games and it can get pretty hairy there!
I believe (and I could be wrong) that this sort of threatening atmosphere (if not blatant hostility) that is so much a part of Greek, and indeed European, sports has deterred large sections of the population from becoming more enthusiastic about the Games. The Olympics are about couples, whole families, children and older people, going along to see the events in a festival-like atmosphere. This is quite different from what the average domestic league or European Cup game is like. The average high-profile sports event draws young males only. If the organisers were not so consumed with struggling to get the facilities ready in time they could have turned their attentions to more seriously marketing the Olympics to broader sections of the public, even those who usually show no interest in any sports.
My biggest concern, especially as someone who has tickets to many Olympic events but will be living in Alimos (which is pretty far from the main Olympic Centre), concerns the transportation. If the transportation system fails so will the Games and the people in Athens have yet to put the full system to the test. In Sydney they ran multiple tests on the rail and bus system bringing people to and from the Olympic venues during various competitions, festivals and concerts, and they found that they had quite a lot to fix before getting it right. In Athens there will not be any time to have a comprehensive and realistic test of the rail link that will have to carry the vast majority of people in and out of the Olympic Centre. What will happen when over 100,000 people head out towards the athletics stadium at the same time as another 16,000 arrive for the basketball and others come for the diving? (Aug. 2 What will happen when they all leave within about an hour of each other? And lets not forget that the transportation system has to handle other travelers as well. It’s all rather worrying to tell the truth.

Anyway, I better stop here. Apologies for my lengthy ranting and raving. Just had a lot to say and thought maybe somebody would be interested.

Cheers!

CheesburgerParadise

[Christos 7]

Great post. And unfortunately true.


I thought this was right on:

[Ziaka]

I plan on being in Greece during the games. I will be dividing my time there between Thessaloniki, Athens, and of course the beaches of Halkidiki . I plan on getting some tickets through Cartan Tours before I leave for Greece, however I will also try to find tickets while there.

[CheeseburgerParadise]

It has me confounded.
Just a month and a half to go before the Opening Ceremony and there are still PLENTY of tickets available to nearly all the major events!
And it's not just a question of high prices or of Greeks not showing interest in the Games or faith in their success. The tickets were put up for sale among the whole EU so the potential market is huge.

Personally, I'm enthusiastic about the Games and am looking forward to seeing the athletes strive for medals. But the prospect of sitting in stadia that are not full to capacity with cheering crowds and of suffering the transportation chaos that some people are concerned about without also getting the festival atmosphere of a city full of Olympic tourists and Olympic spirit is beginning to penetrate even my thick layer of optimism.

I don't read Greek so unfortunately cannot participate in the Greek part of the forum but if there's anyone out there who can give us some indication as to how the average Greek is relating to the Games, it would be of great interest to me...and maybe to others as well.
What's the general mood over there? Anticipation? Trepidation?
What explanations are given by the Greek language media and in conversation between Greeks for the low ticket sales to date?
Ticket sales always pick up once the Games begin and 'Olympic fever' strikes but is seems to me - and all I've got to go on is info on the official Athens 2004 site and reports from foreign media, of course - that at this late stage, there's an awful lot of tickets that will have to be sold if the stadiums are to be full....even for sports that are popular in Europe and where the standard of play is high, like handball, basketball and volleyball, for example.

[exitmusician]

IMO, there are two sides to meeting targets for ticket sales:

i) Meeting the original budgetary target set by the Organization Committee (ATHOC). With current ticket sales, this target is covered by 79%. I am confident that the target will not only be met but will be exceeded.
ii) Achieving an acceptable "fill rate" (pardon my technical jargon) for the venues. Right now this rate stands at approximately 37%, while the target set by ATHOC is 68% (or thereabouts).

Please note that for several popular events the draws and respective schedules were finalized in early to mid-June, while in other events the draws have still not been held. This is one good mark that ticket sales will pick up. Another good mark is that, in the end and despite all the negative frenzy surrounding these Games, Greeks will buy tickets even in the last minute. I can tell you for sure that 40 days before the Games is to most Greeks early for purchasing tickets. It's a totally different culture here. Unfortunately I am not aware of any figures for pre-Games ticket sales in Sydney, Atlanta or Barcelona. That would be a meaningful comparison.

Concerning the Greeks' perception of the Games, I'd say it is mixed, but those who have a positive opinion will not need serious nagging into buying tickets. Up to now, the city is not living its "Olympic fever", nor has it been decorated appropriately yet. I believe that once Athens puts on its Olympic dress, ticket sales will pick up, culminating in the last week before the opening.

Perhaps one should ask themselves why this has happened in the first place. What is the perception of e.g. Americans on safety, transportation efficiency, and quality of life in Athens and Greece in general. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that most Americans have a low opinion about these Games (which in turn affects their willingness to participate), which is partly based on wrong information. For example, you mentioned a potential transportation chaos; this opinion has obviously been influenced by press reports etc. However, you have chosen to receive information from an independent and unbiased source such as stadia.gr and can see a clearer picture of the efficiency of the transportation system, its proximity to the venues etc., which has had a positive impact on your image of Athens and consequently on your decision to be here in August. Yet, others in your country have failed to do so. My point is that it is up to us/you to discover the little pieces of truth among the piles of bogus reports and rubbish cover stories. It's not only Athens to blame.

[CheeseburgerParadise]

It would indeed be interesting to compare ticket sales and fill rates at different stages of the ticket selling process and between different Olympiads at comparable stages.
I've been told before that it's not surprising for Greeks to wait till the very last minute to buy tickets. As you say, it's a cultural thing. But isn't there an additional layer of general disinterest and suspicion that's hampering ticket sales? I’ve read that recent polls indicate that an increasing number of Greeks are more positive with regard to hosting the Games but when you’re less than a month away from the opening ceremony and tickets are still available to nearly all swimming events, the beach volleyball finals and to the basketball final, then it seems to me that something is amiss.

While fill rates are generally poor, there are a handful of event sessions which were sold out (or close to it) relatively quickly, indicating that if the Greek people are really interested in seeing something they'll buy tickets quickly. Naturally enough, these events are ones in which Greek athletes are expected to perform well. This is hardly surprising but it certainly contrasts with the level of interests displayed in all the other sporting sessions. Part of the fun, spirit and ultimate success of an Olympics involves drawing fans - and even those who generally express little interest in sports - to get out to see a whole range of different sports, to participate in a ‘grand event’, and to share in the achievements of competitors (from all nations) striving for sporting success and excellence.
Judging from the way other Olympics were depicted in the media, from personal experience at the Sydney 2000 Games, and from what I’ve seen on TV from past Olympics, previous Olympic host cities were considerably more successful in getting people out of their living rooms, into the various stadia, and feeling the ;Olympic fever'. Let’s hope that Greeks are simply leaving it terribly, terribly late to get into the spirit of participating in this grand sporting event.

I’ve also noticed that for most sporting sessions that are sold out or are close to selling out, it is the cheaper tickets that go first. As someone who followed ticket sales in Sydney from day one and until the latter stages of competition, I can tell you that this is in clear contract to the way tickets sold in Sydney. While fully appreciating the financial constraints that cause many people to think twice about purchasing tickets to the Olympics it is also true to say that tickets for the latter stages of any major competition, and for all past Olympics, were, and are, similarly expensive.
Therefore this also seems to reinforce the impression that 1.) throughout the EU region in which tickets were put up for sale, interest has been very low, and that 2.) apart from the typical youthful Greek sports fan of limited means and limited interest beyond his preferred sport, not too many Greeks are willing to attend Olympic events.

I see your point about how negative publicity becomes self-fulfilling but I feel this is accurate only to a point. Had the organisers, politicians and bureaucrats done their jobs in a professional, responsible and timely manner, there would be no negative publicity to complain about. I’m sure that some of these people did above and beyond the call of duty to get everything ready on time, and in this they were aided by the people who actually carried out the construction who performed Herculean tasks in very short timespans. But many more people contributed to the creation of very real, very unnecessary, worries and obstacles that fed media outlets looking for gossip and interesting stories. As I’ve stated previously, it’s a pity that much more time was spent on damage control, allaying fears and racing to complete projects (not always successfully: e.g. swimming pool roof, landscaping projects, completion of all transport infrastructure) rather than competently marketing the Games among the local populace as a fun participatory family event for all Greeks regardless of their interest in sports. Let’s hope things change, but till now Greeks seem content to proudly view the Olympics as a part of their history and culture but they do not seem willing enough to get out and participate in its most recent, and most Greek, incarnation. And this seems rather a shame.

I don’t mean to be a gloomy Gus, and I’ll certainly be in Athens with a huge smile on my face. I just thought I’d mention these things because they’re interesting topics of discussion – to me at least – and I’m interested in seeing how others perceive matters.

[marin]

Well, it seems that you have given a lot of thought towards what has already gone wrong with the Olympic preparations of Athens and I have to say most of what you write is true and balanced.
However I will add that for me the biggest mistake was the continuous bickering between politicians of this or that party, and Athens 2004 organising commitee. This has braught unwanted attention from the world's media and exaggerated (as Greeks can uniquely do) every little or big problem.
But what everybody outside Greece cannot comprehend, is that come Augoust 13th and for the duration of the Games all of our foreign friends will enjoy a unique and infectious atmosphere, in Athens as our inbuild enthusiasm and party spirit takes over. For the Olympics have never been staged in a place quite like Athens. It is not just construction and venues (which I think even at the last minute will look and be absolutely ready and fantastic). Our spirit and joie de vivre will take over and infect everyone. We are a nation of extreme sentiments one has to admit and this can be a blessing or a curse. Up to now it has been a curse as everyone's life has been turned upside down in our frantic scramble to finish everything. It will be a huge blessing come Games time!
And don't forget tha Athens has been completely transformed within the past 5 years. We have managed to finish very very major infrastructure projects in a city that even the slightest of jobs becomes a headache of history as one tries to preserve our archeaological finds.
I live in London and every single day is a struggle to get to and back from work in a delapidated tube system, the roads are mayhem, and most infrastructure projects (jubilee line extension for example) are hopelessly overbudjet and late. Just look at the fiasco with the millenium dome, and the organisational fiasco of the new Wembley. And that is just one stadium. I firmly believe that for all our faults and mishaps, in August everything will be absolutely fine.
Enjoy your time in Athens...

[exitmusician]

CheeseburgerParadise

Just one small update on your comment that "for most sporting sessions that are sold out or are close to selling out, it is the cheaper tickets that go first". Yesterday Gianna Angelopoulou gave an interesting radio interview, which was broadcast simultaneously by some 15 radio stations. Among the interesting and little-known points she made is that approximately 81% of the "expensive" tickets have been sold and that the problem lies with the tickets for preliminary rounds e.g. taking place early in the morning etc. This is why a part of the ongoing advertising campaign aims at promoting cheap tickets for preliminary rounds.

[Nikos C.]

Cheezeburgerparadise your analysis and especially the part highlighted by Christos was spot on.

Right now, ticket sales concern more than anything else. Security and transportation will in all probablity be fine, the venues fine, but tickets? I am afraid that the story line will become about empty stadiums and that would be indeed a great national shame. We wanted to organize the Olympics because it's our thing and we won't be attending?

One objection and one addition.

Hooliganism won't be a problem. The worst that can happen if you can call it that is booing the American or Australian teams, due to politics and the barag e of negative media. I think that's rather unlikely though.

I think the problem with subpar ticket sales is that as you say going to an athletic event isn't a habit for a greek family. Hooliganism has played a role, but there's another factor: Television! In recent years, there has been a cornucopia of tv coverage and since it's cheaper and going to a local venue doesn't provide too much of an experience (if you know what I mean), people stay at their homes. A culture of going to sports events hasn't developed unfortunately.

I am afraid that in the end we will give tickets free or reduced prices and play on Greek pride to get people into the games.

But it's imperative for these games to succeed.

[CheeseburgerParadise]

Exitmusician – Question is, to what does this 81% figure refer? 81% of all Category A seats? Hard to believe. 81% of all Category A seats for finals? That makes more sense. But even in the case of finals tickets, availability is generally not a problem.
A little while ago the organising committee released a statement explaining to the public that they were very satisfied with the income received from tickets sold to foreign Olympic committees and their sales agents. They went on to say that this income was guaranteed regardless of whether or not these tickets were actually sold to foreign spectators or not. So the fact that 81% of the expensive seats have been sold, does not necessarily mean that 81% of those seats will be filled during the actual event.
As far as direct ticket sales to the Greek and EU populace is concerned, a quick look at the official ticketing site will show that there are very few sessions to which tickets (and especially the expensive ones) are not available. As already mentioned, we have no stats to compare current and final fill rates with those of past Olympiads, but anecdotal evidence would seem to suggest that many events, for which tickets were immediately difficult to obtain in past Olympics, are still under-subscribed at this late stage in the ticket selling process.

Nikos C – I agree with your comments explaining why none but the most passionate Greek sports fan attends sporting events. It’s just a pity that the organisers have still not been able to convince enough people that the Olympics trancends sports. And if we wish to stay clear of idealistic, naïve talk of harmony of nations and the thrill of victory so commonly associated with the Olympics we can simply say that more than a series of sporting events, the Olympics is just a rollicking good time! A two-week feel-good festival similar to the run-up to Christmas. Apparently this notion has still not entrenched itself in the mindsets of most Greeks.

The heart of a good Olympics lies not only in notable sporting achievements but in ‘atmosphere’. So first, you still have to convince people to come on out and see the Games. You put it well: “We wanted to organize the Olympics because it's our thing and we won't be attending?” Secondly, you have hope that those who eventually do attend are as infused with the ‘Olympic spirit’ as they are with the passion to support their athletes. Hooliganism of the type we’re all familiar with may not be a problem but unnecessary and ugly denigration of athletes may be cause for concern. And let’s face it, we’ve all come across the popular stereotype that attributes much passion to Greek anarchists, nihilists, communists, conspiracy theorists, demonstrators and general agitators!
Just for the record, I’m joking here, so please, no angry responses on this particular matter, OK?

Marin – I was last in Athens two years ago so all I saw was the ‘Construction Site City’. The infrastructure undertakings certainly have been ambitious and will be of benefit to many people long after the Olympics have gone (along with the bill for these projects, but that’s another matter that plagues most, if not all, Olympic cities). And as you point out, organisational and budgetary fiascos are not unique to Greece.

I really do hope that the infectious joie de vivre of which you speak will begin to sweep people into the stadia and into the streets.
Right now, apart from the negativity related to organisational foul ups it seems that the official and common stance is to view the Olympics as a solemn cultural legacy, an historical icon of great and grave meaning. Though the organisers are trying hard to convince people these Games will be as fun as past Olympiads, I don’t think the idea has caught on. It seems to me that most people in Greece still view the Athens Olympics through the prism of historical legacy or in purely sporting terms rather than all that AND a once-in-a-lifetime entertainment opportunity for non-sports fans as well.

I will certainly enjoy my time in Athens in August. Question is; will most Athenians?
I certainly hope they will.

[Christos 7]

This may sound very simple, but Greeks will fill up the stadiums. In the end, even with all of this negativity surrounding things, Greeks will buy tickets and attend.

I just got back from Athens, and I can't tell you how much it has changed since my last visit. It actually is lookin like a city which will host the Olympics, and this is without finishing touches and Olympic fever.


All of the family I stayed with and got together with, were ALL going to events during the games. And this includes my cousins (their children) who are younger. They haven't bought any tickets yet, but they are all planning to go. This is just the way it is for most Greeks, they won't buy until the games are ready to begin. I'm sure the media will have alot of fun with that.


I believe Athens will be 99% ready to host these Olympics, and in the end all of the stuff we fought, were concerned about, and defended, will end up being ok.

[Christos 7]

btw, don't underestimate the importance of Greek victory in the EURO 2004 Championships. It may sound kind of silly, but when I arrived and when I left, it was a different place. It has spurred a whole new sence of pride, and was just the shot in the arm I think the Olympics needed.

[Ziaka]

Hey Chris, hope you had a nice stay in patrida. With EURO 2004 and all I am sure you had some fun.

I can confirm what Chris is saying. I have been talking to some relatives in Athens ahead of my trip there in two weeks, and I would say that the majority are planning on attending some Olympic events despite the fact that they did not buy tickets yet.

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[Christos 7]

hey Ziaka, I did have a great time, as always. The only bad feeling is when you leave....


I can't describe what went on, and how I felt during the tournament. As you know, we have been following this saga called Greek football for a long time, and I can't describe with words I how felt inside. The only thing left to do was go to Omonia with my cousins and just celebrate. Kinda made all these years worth it.


And like I said, when I arrived and when I left it was a different city, different country. This is exactly the boost we needed heading into the games I believe. Outstanding.


I'm sure you enjoyed it also, we are kings of Europe. Hope you are doing well.....


(and sorry for the off topic everybody)

[Christos 7]

by the way....


I keep seeing this number, 5.3 million tickets, and only half being sold. Now, aren't a couple million of the 5.3 reserved for Olympic Officials etc? Or am I wrong?

[Ziaka]

Chris, great to hear you had good time. It was exciting following EURO 2004 here as well, even though we had to relay on TV only. It sure made me proud being Greek when we lifted the trophy. I'd say the greatest moment for me was when the fans in the stands started singing the Greek national anthem. It almost brought tears to my eyes. The only bad part was that I could not share the moments with some of the great guys at the Greek Soccer forums.

I am doing fine considering some of the problems I am facing in life.

Sorry for getting a bit personal here in the forums, but me and Christos_7 go back quite a long time. Hope everyone else understands.

As for the tickets not sold yet, I don't know what is going on. I kind of hope that there are some available when I get to Athens in August. I already have tickets for some events, but I would like to get some in Athens at the last minute as well, and have to rely on black market.

In the end I think the Olympics will be a success.