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ael
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

egw perimenw apo ton karagiozi na apantisei...an den to kanei tote tha vrei ena poly wraio mail sto inbox tou to opoio gia logous sevasmou pros ta melh tou forum de tha to valw edw...
yg: kala tou ta eipate oloi re mages...
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Δωστε του 10 μερες, αν δεν απαντησει στειλτε του 2-3 ιους. Θα τον κρατησουν κανενα μηνα απασχολημενο. Δε λεει να ασχολειτε με πραγματα που αγνοει.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry pou sunexizw to thema me to malaka, alla diabaste kai to akoloutho arthro tou.... Oxi tipote allo, alla gia na deite thn ptwtotupia tou kai oti den epanalambanetai.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3226091/
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Ypsilon
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Είναι απολύτως φαιδρό το άτομο. Μου φαίνεται ότι αδίκως του δώσαμε τόση σημασία.
Από την άλλη όμως δεν χάσαμε και τίποτα. Wink Όσο καραγκιόζης και να είναι, δεν παύει να διαμορφώνει γνώμη και να επηρεάζει κόσμο. Ειδικά όταν τον βλέπουμε να δουλεύει σε τοπ εφημερίδα αλλά και στο MSN !!! Shocked Shocked
Ας τον αγνοήσουμε προς τον παρόν, γιατί για να τον ξεχάσουμε, αποκλείεται! Laughing
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Giannis
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kalhmera... Very Happy
xthes brady tou egrapsa ki egw telika...bebaia to xontrhna ligo ( mhn einai to "ths dikaiosynhs hlie" pou epaize to cd....?). Koimhtthka omws hsyxos ( ena 3wro..) Confused
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Nikolas
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ειναι απτις λιγες φορες που εχω νευριασει στη ζωη μου , και εχω νευριασει ασχημα!!
Για καθε γραμμη του αρθρου του που διαβαζα,1 σφυγμο παραπανω ειχα Mad Mad
Ο ανθρωπος ειναι ΑΣΧΕΤΟΣ-ΑΝΙΣΤΟΡΙΤΟΣ-ΑΠΑΡΑΔΕΚΤΟΣ-ΑΚΑΤΑΛΛΗΛΟΣ-ΑΣΥΓΧΩΡΗΤΟΣ ΚΑΙ ΚΟΜΠΛΕΞΙΚΟΣ

Λεω να φτιαξουμε το ΚΙ.Ε.Σ.Ο
Very Happy Very Happy (Κινημα Εξοντωσης Σκοτ Οστλερ)

Αυτος δεν παιρνει απο λογια,μονο με ξυλο θα καταλαβει!!
Θελω να δω αν θα απαντησει και τι!!!
Οποιος ξαναβρει κανενα κακοβουλο αρθρο του ας με ειδοποιησει
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Καπου εχω κρυψει λιγο ανθρακα ... που να ειναι αραγε ... που θα μου παει θα τον βρω ... να εδω ειναι ... βαζουμε λιγο στο φακελο ... λιγο; ολο μπας και εχει μπαγιατεψει ... Χμμ ... San Francisco, CA-1234, USA.
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Giannis
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ergazomai se tmhma mikrobiologias...exoume ap'ola ta kala....lyssa, anthraka...oti xreiasteis Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
Oxi paidia, politismena pragmata..... Wink
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Tzinos
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ekana ena search sta arthra tou akatanomastou karagiozakou apo to san fransisco kai eftyxws itan to prwto pou egrafe gi Twisted Evil a tin ellada apo tis arxes tou xronou. o typos einai athlitikografos, den einai tipota periopis apoti katalava (mporei k na kanw lathos)

vrika omos kai alla arthra tou s.f.chronicle gia tin ellada pou den einai k toso asxima, merika kanoun kia kali diafimisi!! Very Happy

ta parathetw:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/04/05/sports1255EDT0247.DTL

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/04/05/sports1452EDT0281.DTL

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/03/21/CMG3H4UKN08.DTL

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/03/14/TRGU25IBQ01.DTL

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/03/14/TRGPS5HGUI1.DTL

as einai to teleftaio tou, tou malalailaka, k toulaxiston an einai adras as vgei kai as apantisei sta email
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Giannis
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nai...me mia shmantikh epishmansh: oi perissoteroi exoun ellhnikes rizes.. Rolling Eyes
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Tzinos
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nai alla an thymasai kala, kai o kassimeris sto arthro tou bbc oxi mono exei ellinikes rizes, einai ellinas Confused kai o p;'/\';stis mas ekapse me to arthro tou Twisted Evil

to simantiko einai oti o kosmos den tha kollisei mono ston akatanomasto alla tha diavasei k ola ta ypoloipa asxeta apo to pou einai oi syggrafeis kai afto tha metrisei telika gia tin eikona tis elladas
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bebaia...exw synanthsei polles periptwseis opou Ellhnes tou e3wterikou ginontai oi xeiroteroi presbeutes ths xwras
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Alexander The Great
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:27 am    Post subject: O Mr Ostler ξαναχτυπησε Reply with quote

Gia sas!

O Mr Ostler ξαναχτυπησε:
"Quick! Give Athens a 'Queer Eye' makeover!"
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3226091/
To write to the editor and opinions letters@MSNBC.com and Sports@MSNBC.com
You can also send them mail:

MSNBC on the Internet
One Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052

Article in MPA: ENA MEGALO TSIRKO H ATHINA” SYMFONA ME ARTHRO THS SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE GIA TOUS OLYMPIAKOUS
http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=447091

Μερικα γραμματα απο το Σαν Φραντζισκο
------------------------------------------------------------------
Dimitrios Touloupas
Consul General of Greece
San Francisco CA

April 5, 2004
Letters to the Editor
San Francisco Chronicle
901 Mission Street
San Francisco CA 94103

Dear Editor:

I would like to respond to Mr. Ostler’s self-defeating commentary “Athens becoming a five-ring circus” in today’s Chronicle and express my horror with his comparison of the Berlin Games of 1936, held by the Nazi regime, with the Athens 2004 Olympic Games , hosted by Greece, a democratic country which fought valiantly in WW II, side by side with the U.S., in defence of our common values, including your columnist’s freedom of _expression.



Let me, however, ignore Mr. Ostler’s poor attempts at humour and deal with hard facts: apart from a small number of technical problems, the different venues, the Olympic village, media center and village etc., as well as the various infrastructure projects either are ready or in the very last stages of completion. Schedules are tight, but work is proceeding at a very fast pace. I.O.C. official Dennis Oswald, who was recently in Athens, once more expressed his confidence that everything will be ready in time.



Concerning the decision not to construct the swimming pool roof, allow me to remind your readers that swimming venues in the Olympic Games in 1984 in Los Angeles, in 1992 in Barcelona and the US trials in 2004 in Long Beach - with a climate similar to that of Athens – also did not have a roof. I do not recall any reports of spectators “being cooked” at those events, Mr. Ostler’s dire prediction notwithstanding.



On the issue of security, let me stress that, as the American people were painfully reminded on Sept. 11th 2001, that geographic distance from “bad-guy headquarters” does not provide security. The Greek authorities leave nothing to chance and are doing everything humanly possible, to ensure the safety of the Games and safeguard our democratic values, through hard work, thorough planning, close cooperation with partners and allies and, of course, the allocation of ample resources.



In a recent letter to Prime Minister Karamanlis, President Bush stressed that ''American citizens are honored to have Greece as an irreplaceable and courageous ally” adding that ''we are working together to ensure the safety and success of the Olympic Games as they return to their birthplace - Greece - this summer’’.



The Olympic Games of Athens will be technically impeccable and will offer a unique experience for the athletes, coaches, spectators and journalists –including Mr. Ostler- who will be attending.

Sincerely
Dimitrios Touloupas



From: "Marina Moustakas"
<marinamoustakas@hellenicheritageinstitute.org>
Founding President of the
Hellenic Heritage Institute

To: "Scott Ostler" <sostler@sfcronicle.com>
CC: <cauthorn@sfgate.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 00:26:08 -0700 >
Mr Ostler,
I find extremely inaccurate, malicious and unprofessional your article on today's paper regarding the Olympic Games in Greece. Your inappropriate and despicable comments can only indicate a very insecure person who vends his frustrations on the column of a respectable newspaper.
Your sarcasm, your below the belt punches, your ridiculous, tasteless jokes and your negative prophecies about the Olympic Games, are a disgrace to the profession of journalism.
To top it all off you make a parallelism of Greece, as a host and the Nazi monster Adolf Hitler. You should be ashamed of yourself By comparing a Brave Nation, which gave the lights of knowledge to the "World" to a disturbed archomaniac, you demonstrate ignorance of historical facts about Greece.
Let me tell you Mr. Ostler. The Greeks created the Olympic Games and brought them back to life in the modern times when nobody had the courage to undertake this noble task.
The Greeks fought Hitler valiantly, side by side with the Americans and they induced a tremendous blow on the Nazi army by delaying their invasion to Greece by, fighting bravely on the mountains of Albania. Greeks are very proud and brave people and if I were you I wouldn't make these comparisons again in front of a Greek and especially in Greece where you will be going for the Olympics.
By the way, if you think that the Olympic Games are doomed to failure, why are you going to Greece? So you can write another article afterward and tear the country apart?. Please stay here. You should not leave the comfort of your desk for such a condemned event. Don't worry though! Greeks have something that nobody else has. It's called "FILOTIMO" and to be honest with you, you are not going to understand the word, because there is no one word that accurately translates it in English.
So let me enlighten you. It means: PRIDE, HONOR, CHARACTER, ETHICS,
SELF-SACRIFICE, SCRUPLES.
Yes Mr Ostler SCRUPLES along with INTELLIGENCE, INGENUITY, FAITH AND PERSEVERANCE AND THE OLYMPIC GAMES WILL BE THE BEST EVER AND Greece WILL ADD >ANOTHER GOLDEN PAGE IN ITS HISTORY BOOK.
So don't worry about the Greeks, just worry about your next article and make sure you offer a public apology to the Greek Government, the Athens 2004 Olympic committee, the Greeks of Greece and to us American citizens of Greek descent who are as mad as hell with your audacious article.
Marina Moustakas
Founding President of the
Hellenic Heritage Institute

From: Terry Phillips <newsman@ix.netcom.com>
To: letterstogreen@sfchronicle.com
Subject: Response to Ostler column
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 20:15:32 -0700

Editor: Scott Ostler's hateful diatribe on the upcoming Olympic Games ("Athens becoming a five-ring circus") is unfit for human consumption. I cannot believe the San Francisco Chronicle would publish a column so thoroughly offensive to Greeks and Greek-Americans. What were you thinking?! Comparing Greece to Hitler's Germany is a grave insult to the memory of the more than 400,000 Greeks killed by the Nazis, as well as to those who fought courageously against fascism during World War II.
Ostler should be ashamed and deserves reprimand at a minimum. His implication that Greece is somehow tied to terrorism goes beyond the pale. Moreover, no good comes from exacerbating public fear over this danger. As we have painfully learned, every free and open society is vulnerable to such attacks. Perhaps he's happy the next Summer Olympics are due to be held in a totalitarian state -- China. As for his personal anxieties about being in Greece this summer, he has no reason to be afraid. Greeks are a forgiving people -- despite the writer's many cheap shots. But hey, maybe he'd rather stay at home and watch TV, waiting for another "sneak attack" by Janet Janet's breast.
Oh, by the way, falafel comes from the Arab world and the currency of Greece is now the Euro, not the drachma. Also, the correct term for "Athens folks" is Athenians. Read a newspaper, Scott. Terry Phillips Bodega Bay, CA----

Feedback form to contact the editor:
http://sfgate.com/feedback/
You can write to
Scott Ostler
sostler@sfchronicle.com
Or call and let them know what do you think....
Editorial News
City Desk . . . (415) 777-7100
Letters to the Editor . . . Letters to the Editor
San Francisco Chronicle
901 Mission Street
San Francisco, CA 94103

Apo SF
Alexandros
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Ypsilon
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexander the Great, όνομα και πράμα !!! Laughing
Μπράβο φίλε, ήταν πολύ διαφωτιστικά όλα όσα διαβάσαμε, και πολύ παρήγορο το γεγονός ότι -λογικά- θα πρέπει να βρήκε το μπελά του ο συγκεκριμένος Καραγκιόζης από τον καταιγισμό των γραμμάτων.
Δηλαδή τα παραπάνω γράμματα δημοσιεύθηκαν, ε; Νενικήκαμεν !! Laughing
Αν τολμήσει να δώσει καμμιά απάντηση σε όλα αυτά, μην ξεχάσεις να μας την δώσεις και σε μας για να ξέρουμε....
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ευχαριστω για την φιλοξενεια Ypsilon,
Το θεμα ειναι οτι υπαρχει ενορχηστρωμενη επιθεση και προκαταληψη κατα της Ελλαδας. Αν οι αγωνες γινοντουσαν σε οποιοδηποτε αλλο μερος (πχ Ισραηλ) δεν θα γραφαν αυτα που γραφουν. Συγουρα χρειαζεται επαγρυπνηση και αντισταση....
Απο Σαν Φραντζισκο
Με Φιλικωτατους χαιρετισμους, Αλεξανδρος
Αλλο ενα καλο γραμμα:
April 6, 2004

Dear Chronicle Editors and Executive Managers,

The attached article by Scott Ostler which appeared in the April 5, 2004 issue of the Chronicle has been extremely offensive and upsetting to the 50,000 Greek Americans who are represented by the Hellenic Federation of Northern California and its 35 constituent organizations.
The subject article is malicious, it is in bad taste for humor, contains many hearsay inaccuracies, has strong suggestions of ethnic hatred, and is an utter disrespect for a historic and most hospitable country, Greece, who is doing its utmost to put on a memorable event for the 2004 Olympics and to welcome the world to Greece, the birthplace of the Olympics, with all its glory and the vast historical treasures it offers to visitors.
I will not rebuff Mr. Ostler’s article point by point because his poor judgment is self evident, and because others have done it, as you see in the attached letters by the Consul General of Greece, Mr. Touloupas, and the Director of the Hellenic Heritage Institute, Mr. Kepesidis.
However, I will say that allowing such trash to be published in the Chronicle damages the reputation of the paper and is unfair to the hundreds of the other fine writers, editors and contributors to the Chronicle.
I ask that this letter be published in the letters to the editor along with an apology by the Chronicle's management and editorial staff. Otherwise, we will advise our membership and our friends to reconsider their support and attitude towards the Chronicle.
Sincerely,
Ted Laliotis,
President, Hellenic Federation of Northern California
www.hellenicfederation.org
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Ypsilon
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Προς όλους: Τελικά, η καλύτερη λύση είναι να στέλνονται τα γράμματα στον editor και όχι στον δημοσιογράφο. Έτσι τον εκθέτεις περισσότερο, και αναγκάζεις και την εφημερίδα να πάρει θέση.
Όχι τίποτε άλλο, αλλά ο καραγκιόζης το πολύ να διάβασε 1-2 γράμματα και τα υπόλοιπα να τα έσβησε από τον υπολογιστή του. Όσο ηλίθιος και να είναι, τουλάχιστον θα φρόντισε να προστατέψει το τομάρι του.
Όσοι από εσάς λοιπόν δημοσιεύσατε τα γράμματά σας στο φόρουμ (και δεν βαριέστε), πηγαίνετε σε αυτήν τη σελίδα http://sfgate.com/feedback/ επιλέξτε letter to the editor και ξαναβομβαρδίστε το αφεντικό του βλάκα.
Αν δεν έχετε φυλάξει τα γράμματά σας, υπενθυμίζω ότι βρίσκονται στις προηγούμενες σελίδες αυτού του φόρουμ. Cool
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Συγχαρητήρια Alexander the Great. Πολύ καλή ενημέρωση απο μέρους σου! Συγχαρητήρια και σε αυτούς που στείλανε τις ηλεκτρονικές επιστολές στο συγκεκριμένο μπαγλαμά Evil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad !

Προσβάλω και το μουσικό όργανο...
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Giannis
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Se periptwsh pou sas endiaferei na diabasete to e-mail pou tou esteila proxthes en brasmw psyxhs... Wink

Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 2:42 AM
Subject: some comments from a reader

Mr Ostler

I just went through your article about the Olympics that my country is going to host.

Before we proceed to the main subject, lets see together what makes a good journalist:

1. general education: about geography, politics, cultural habits.... YOU: falafel! drachma!!!!!!-although I am proud of our 2500 years old currency-, "muggy Athens"-Athens is well known for its very dry climate! etc.....

2. "knowing the subject"/accuracy: "I have been there", "I have seen it with my eyes", "I have data"......YOU: 8 out of 12 venues unfinished, on opening day, they'll have scuba divers painting the black lines on the bottom of the pool, terrorism...)

3. sincerity: co-exists with accuracy, they complement eachother

4. moral principles: "I am polite and careful of what I am saying/writing, I respect the person/people I write about", " I respect their culture/feelings ", " I respect their problems" etc....YOU: Nazis-Hitler!, "I hope that lady is on call during the Olympics"....

5. Language/"attitude", of the article: "proper", "that of an educated person", "in a decent way"....YOU: the whole article characterized by obvious, endless cheap irony/sarcasm....one example: "it's worth noting that the Greeks aren't even pushing the panic button. They cant! They haven't hooked up the wiring. They might have to go with a cowbell......(very smart)


All 5 features are essentially connected and determine the outcome of a journalist's job, and that is: accurate information for those that read/listen to him ( this is your job by the way....)


Now to our conclusions:

1. You cannot consider yourself a journalist since you dont fulfill any of the above mentioned requirements
2. The way you write, mirrors your personality, and that is: unpolite, unrespectful, lier, ironic, non-educated (lack of basic-knowledge ( do you have geography lessons in your country??...since I have met Americans that I had to convince them that they are in Switzerland and not Sweden, or , that the Colosseum is in Rome and not in Athens, or, that there is a city on this planet, called Budapest....
3. Lack of sensitivity / thinking when using words of "heavy" meaning ( eg Nazis, Hitler), unskilled! ..besides, it outlines the absence of solemness in you. (what a shame)


Well, I am not going to explain you and give you a whole lecture ( one was enough..) about what is ready and what not, concerning the Olympics ( this is not my job, indeed its yours!!). This, you will have the chance to see by yourself, when coming this Summer to Greece.

You know something Scott??
I live in country of breathtaking, diverse beauty, with charming islands thrawn spontaneously in the crystalline waters of the Mediterrannean (its between Europe, Africa and Asia...for your information), with mountains that are too beautiful to be compared with the swiss Alps, in a country where each season has its own special colors, flavours, odors .. I live in a country where food is just delicious and the most healthy in the world (our life expectancy is one of the highest globally), a country where people love life, smile a lot, know how to forget their routine and problems, with families holding together ...A COUNTRY that is a small spot on tha map, with only 10 mil. people ( half of your New York) but has given birth to democracy, science, arts and human values, that are obviously more respected here than in your . A peaceful country that always loved and fought for freedom ( and Nazis...), with people that, while you were bombing Iraq and Serbia ( on the name of your democracy...and your terrorism-obsession), they were collecting the scared/injured children to bring them to Greece for medical treatment...and afterwards running and making schools and hospitals out of the ruines you left....Scott, I live in a country....THAT IS GOING TO HOST THE BEST OLYMPICS EVER! (unlike Atlanta)...and during this time, you will be the one with the frustrated/desperate eyes...chewing you yesterdays article and thinking of what kind of job could be proper for you in the future.


kind regards,

Ioannis M.



PS: You wrote: " I wont have time to shower"....ever heard about hygiene??


Last edited by Giannis on Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Εγώ παίδες ένα πιστεύω ότι άν και υπάρχουν κάποια άσχημα στην προετοιμασία, η ευθύνη μας και οι επιπτώσεις (τυχόν)κακών ολυμπιακών αγώνων μας έκαναν σε μερικά ζητήματα να σκεφτόμαστε διαφορετικά και πιο υπεύθυνα Razz

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paidia, pou mporei na brei kaneis auta ta grammata dhmosieumena online....?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

an ennoeis to arthro tou karagiozi tou amerikanou, tote pigene stis pisw selides tou sygekrimenou thread kai tha vreis toi link kathws kai tis apantiseis twn synadelfwn tou forum
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Διαβάστε κι αυτό!! Και η Ελευθεροτυπία σε καμπάνια κατά του Όστλερ !!!! Laughing

http://www.enet.gr/online/online_p1_fpage_text.jsp?id=90129796
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Autos o anthrwpos, h tha xasei th douleia tou, h tha anagkastei apo thn efhmerida tou na zhthsei dhmosia sygnwmh.... Twisted Evil
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Tzinos
Stadium Expert
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Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Posts: 993
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrow Ypsiloooonn!!!!!!! Very Happy

ypirxe telika adapokrisi apo ta email/fax/cart postal/taxydromika peristeria ktl pou esteiles se kathe gonia tis gis gia ton karagiozi???

ekane kaneis tipota i to afisan?
Question Question
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Ypsilon
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Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 3951
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Από την πρεσβεία μας στην Ουάσινγκτον είχα άμεση απάντηση με ευχαριστίες, το ίδιο κι από το προξενείο του Σαν Φρανσίσκο, κι όπως είδατε επιλήφθησαν ήδη του θέματος. Cool Χωρίς να θέλω να πω με αυτό ότι κινητοποιήθηκαν εξαιτίας των επιστολών μου, μην τρελαθούμε κιόλας!! Wink
Επίσης, απάντησε αμέσως και ο 'Αντριου Άθενς (τον έχω γνωρίσει στη Θεσσαλονίκη και έχω το προσωπικό του μαίηλ) καθώς και η Φάνη (για την ακρίβεια, το γραφείο της), και είπε πως γίνονται ήδη συνενοήσεις με τον Αθήνα 2004.

Από τον δημοσιογράφο και τον εκδότη του, μούγκα φυσικά.... Razz
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